So back to Todd Bentley again. I fear this subject may becoming way too important so I don't really want to talk about it too many times.
You see that's a really big problem with this. That it distracts us from what's really important about our faith. Whether its actually being involved in it or talking about it, it takes up time.
Yes, we need to look at it and have a response to it. That's important.
But lets not let it distract us from what matters most.
I've had more time to reflect on it all, and I've come to see that the point when analysing this is not to make judgements. Its not to be legalistic. Its not to say 'this is Biblical and this isn't'. Isn't that something many of us criticise others for? Yes it is.
So lets not be hypocrites and make judgements. It's difficult not to, I know this. But its the only right response.
I believe God heals people and that He can do that in any way He chooses, and historically He has done. People like Smith Wigglesworth for example. A man of God, but who had his own methods.
God is gracious and loving, and all-powerful. He heals us and can perform miracles by His spirit even today, I have no doubt of that.
Our response needs to be not one of judgement. We need to be open to whatever God wants to do and how He chooses to do it, and whoever He chooses to do it with or through.
The issue has never been the healing for me because I believe God does heal and these healings could well be of God, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest it is, and some to suggest it might not be.
I'm concerned with the Kingdom of God and how it grows and advances. I'm concerned about playing my part in building a church - that is, a community of believers. I'm concerned with discipleship. I'm concerned about showing and telling people who Jesus really is. I'm concerned with building a community that supports and serves each other and the community around it.
I'm not into the latest trend. I'm not going to change what I believe or how I interpret the Bible.
Of course, we all should be looking for new interpretations of the Bible, new meanings, new perspectives. Of course we need to be trying to discuss how we can apply the basic doctrines of our faith today, and what it means to be a Christian now. Of course we need to keep the message fresh and new, and live and speak it in a way that is culturally relevant.
But that doesn't mean changing everything to fit with the latest trend. Because contrary to some belief, God isn't only at these events.
Oh and lets get rid of one misconception here. People calling this a revival.
No it isn't.
No, its really not.
Its not revival, because revival for me is when a large number of people come to faith in Christ, not just when lots of people are healed. So anyone calling it a revival is misguided.
Call it what it is. A mass outpouring of healing. Possibly an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
But I have said it before and I will say it again.
Jesus
is
so
much
more
than
healing.
If this is Him at work through Todd Bentley then fine. Give Him the glory and worship Him for it.
If it isn't I pray that it is exposed as such and God brings it down.
We all should be praying for that.
We should be praying that if it is God, to work through it, and if it isn't, that He shows it up for what it is, and brings it to a halt.
We need to trust God to do that. He knows what He's doing. He's in control. We need to believe that and trust Him.
If it is God, then lets praise God for healing all those people. If it is God then He deserves the honour, praise and glory. If it is God, then its a very good thing.
But that brings me back to the point.
That this isn't the point.
That's its a sideshow.
Its not the major event or major work.
The real major ongoing work of God, what I believe is more important to Him, is building the Kingdom here.
Now.
Today.
Where we are.
The real work is us trying to live by Jesus values and standards each and every day, trying to become more like Him. Trying to stand for the values and truths He did and to grow in relationship with Him.
If God wants to heal, then let Him do so and praise and worship Him for it.
But lets not allow it to distract us from the root of our faith. If it does that, then that's a very bad thing.
If it does that, then either its not of God, or people have allowed themselves to be distracted and sucked in by a big stage show.
That's just consumer Christianity, a God who gives us what we want when we want or when we need it. In our time, on our agenda.
That's not God either.
So instead of putting all the focus on this, lets pray that God works through it and is at work in it. Lets thank God for healing people if it is Him, and give Him the glory He deserves.
Then lets back to the daily business of trying to live like Jesus and having a relationship with Him.
Trust God to deal with Todd Bentley, because for sure one day Todd Bentley will have to account to God for what He's doing, whether it is God or not.
Trust God and pray for His kingdom to come. That's the priority.
Showing posts with label Todd Bentley. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Todd Bentley. Show all posts
Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Sunday, June 29, 2008
Todd Bentley - A response (1)
In my 100th post I posed some questions regarding Todd Bentley, and today I will try to begin answering them.
I don't know where this will take me, but it should be interesting.
So to begin, lets look at the issue of substance. Now its all very well performing miracles, healing people and making people fall over in the spirit on stage. But if their core root beliefs are not rooted in the truth of Jesus and the Bible and there is no backbone to what they are doing, and they are merely doing miracles and healings for the sake of doing them, well that to me is a faith without substance, a message without substance, a ministry without substance.
I mean exactly what else happens apart from healing and prayer ministry? Everything else seems to fit around it. Its like that is the centre of what they are doing and everything else isn't as important.
Its very dangerous to submit yourselves to prayer ministry by anyone not knowing what they believe or what they are preaching.
Being a Christian, and being a church, is about being community together and healing is only one dimension to this. Good teaching and getting spiritual direction to help you follow Jesus in the world is more important, to me and I think to God, than how many people get healed of whatever sicknesses or conditions. Surely its more important to know the right way to live and get good direction and teaching on that, so you can put it into practice, than to be healed. God cares about both, but learning to live like Jesus is of more long-term value to us as people.
So when people come along doing things like this we need to ask the question of what they believe, and where their faith comes from.
If someones faith in Jesus is dependent on Him healing people to 'prove' He loves us and His power is real, then in my opinion that's not true faith. Faith is believing in something we cannot see or prove 100%, and if someone is medically healed, that is a very obvious and outward demonstration of God's power.
Jesus attitude to all of this? Even Jesus got tired eventually of how He kept having to perform miracles for people, not because He didn't want to heal people, but because of what it said about the faith and character of the people who asked for a healing.
In John 4 v 48 Jesus says something very telling which is very relevant to this. A man has come to Him to ask Him to heal his child. Jesus does go on to heal him, but His first response speaks volumes. This is Jesus initial response when asked the heal the child. The first thing He says.
"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe.""
Wow. What a response.
Try and imagine His tone of voice here as well. I think its almost an air of resignation. People needing to see miracles to believe and Jesus knows this, and He wishes it were otherwise.
This is precisely the danger here. Do people going to this and the leaders involved need miracles to support and justify their faith in Jesus?
One of the big dangers with this too is that people end up thinking that Jesus is 'only' in this place, that Todd Bentley is the only man who is bringing the power and spirit of Jesus down for healing, that everyone needs to go to these meetings to meet with Jesus.
This of course leads to people beginning to idolise the leaders of these meetings, like Todd Bentley.
The other big danger is that people will start to go to these meetings expecting to get their needs met, almost demanding it. They will start to think that if they aren't healed then God is being unfair, unjust, or doesn't love them as much. They will become consumer Christians, taking what they can get and beginning to demand more of God to prove He is there and that He loves them.
They could slowly and surely start to consume Jesus, demand to get what they want and have their prayers answered, and think God doesn't love them if He doesn't.
When its over, they can become disillusioned and lose their faith because God isn't doing such spectacular miracles and they've come to expect them. They could fall away from the church, which would make the healing totally counter-productive. But that has more to do with the attitude of those going and the character of the leaders than the power of God to heal.
It becomes a show, and the leaders become celebrities and in all the tide of emotion and popularity there is a big temptation for them to start to think its all about them and forget about God - if it is the power of God they are using.
These are all big issues and very real dangers of meetings like this.
In the verse above in John 4 Jesus gives his response. He is saying that the signs and wonders are not the most important thing.
That there is more to faith than miracles, signs and wonders.
There is more than a spectacular show.
He's totally spot on.
Christianity isn't just about miracles of the Spirit. Its about how you live.
I wonder, would he say the something like that to these people if He got up on stage?
Christianity is about living a life like Jesus.
Having the same values as Jesus.
Being Jesus wherever we are and whatever we do or say. Jesus isn't just in these meetings, He's always with us.
He's with us wherever we are. He can heal us wherever we are.
He is all around us.
Faith in Jesus is not about all the signs and wonders, its about staying true to what we believe even when all seems against us. Signs and wonders are encouraging, but they don't develop character and a strong faith which sustains through the good and bad times.
Jesus can choose whether to heal us or not, and its His choice. Either way, He still loves us.
I believe in Jesus whether He's healing me or not, whether I feel good or bad, whether things are happy or painful. In fact the painful times are often the times that I've actually felt I've grown and developed and got closer to God. Not when God's been obviously present and doing powerful stuff in a congregation, but when life is difficult and I have to trust God more because I need Him more and He might feel more distant.
Faith is so much more than deeds. Being a Christian is so much more than God doing miracles.
We need to remember that.
I have still to make my conclusions on Todd Bentley and there are more issues to tackle in a future blog before I do so. But so far, I can only say I am concerned about what is happening - not because it may not be God necessarily, but because there doesn't appear to be much substance behind it, and because it may be leading people to put their faith in something which is only an outward sign, rather than on something far stronger - the real God at the centre of it.
There is more to discuss, and I am looking forward to doing so.
I don't know where this will take me, but it should be interesting.
So to begin, lets look at the issue of substance. Now its all very well performing miracles, healing people and making people fall over in the spirit on stage. But if their core root beliefs are not rooted in the truth of Jesus and the Bible and there is no backbone to what they are doing, and they are merely doing miracles and healings for the sake of doing them, well that to me is a faith without substance, a message without substance, a ministry without substance.
I mean exactly what else happens apart from healing and prayer ministry? Everything else seems to fit around it. Its like that is the centre of what they are doing and everything else isn't as important.
Its very dangerous to submit yourselves to prayer ministry by anyone not knowing what they believe or what they are preaching.
Being a Christian, and being a church, is about being community together and healing is only one dimension to this. Good teaching and getting spiritual direction to help you follow Jesus in the world is more important, to me and I think to God, than how many people get healed of whatever sicknesses or conditions. Surely its more important to know the right way to live and get good direction and teaching on that, so you can put it into practice, than to be healed. God cares about both, but learning to live like Jesus is of more long-term value to us as people.
So when people come along doing things like this we need to ask the question of what they believe, and where their faith comes from.
If someones faith in Jesus is dependent on Him healing people to 'prove' He loves us and His power is real, then in my opinion that's not true faith. Faith is believing in something we cannot see or prove 100%, and if someone is medically healed, that is a very obvious and outward demonstration of God's power.
Jesus attitude to all of this? Even Jesus got tired eventually of how He kept having to perform miracles for people, not because He didn't want to heal people, but because of what it said about the faith and character of the people who asked for a healing.
In John 4 v 48 Jesus says something very telling which is very relevant to this. A man has come to Him to ask Him to heal his child. Jesus does go on to heal him, but His first response speaks volumes. This is Jesus initial response when asked the heal the child. The first thing He says.
"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe.""
Wow. What a response.
Try and imagine His tone of voice here as well. I think its almost an air of resignation. People needing to see miracles to believe and Jesus knows this, and He wishes it were otherwise.
This is precisely the danger here. Do people going to this and the leaders involved need miracles to support and justify their faith in Jesus?
One of the big dangers with this too is that people end up thinking that Jesus is 'only' in this place, that Todd Bentley is the only man who is bringing the power and spirit of Jesus down for healing, that everyone needs to go to these meetings to meet with Jesus.
This of course leads to people beginning to idolise the leaders of these meetings, like Todd Bentley.
The other big danger is that people will start to go to these meetings expecting to get their needs met, almost demanding it. They will start to think that if they aren't healed then God is being unfair, unjust, or doesn't love them as much. They will become consumer Christians, taking what they can get and beginning to demand more of God to prove He is there and that He loves them.
They could slowly and surely start to consume Jesus, demand to get what they want and have their prayers answered, and think God doesn't love them if He doesn't.
When its over, they can become disillusioned and lose their faith because God isn't doing such spectacular miracles and they've come to expect them. They could fall away from the church, which would make the healing totally counter-productive. But that has more to do with the attitude of those going and the character of the leaders than the power of God to heal.
It becomes a show, and the leaders become celebrities and in all the tide of emotion and popularity there is a big temptation for them to start to think its all about them and forget about God - if it is the power of God they are using.
These are all big issues and very real dangers of meetings like this.
In the verse above in John 4 Jesus gives his response. He is saying that the signs and wonders are not the most important thing.
That there is more to faith than miracles, signs and wonders.
There is more than a spectacular show.
He's totally spot on.
Christianity isn't just about miracles of the Spirit. Its about how you live.
I wonder, would he say the something like that to these people if He got up on stage?
Christianity is about living a life like Jesus.
Having the same values as Jesus.
Being Jesus wherever we are and whatever we do or say. Jesus isn't just in these meetings, He's always with us.
He's with us wherever we are. He can heal us wherever we are.
He is all around us.
Faith in Jesus is not about all the signs and wonders, its about staying true to what we believe even when all seems against us. Signs and wonders are encouraging, but they don't develop character and a strong faith which sustains through the good and bad times.
Jesus can choose whether to heal us or not, and its His choice. Either way, He still loves us.
I believe in Jesus whether He's healing me or not, whether I feel good or bad, whether things are happy or painful. In fact the painful times are often the times that I've actually felt I've grown and developed and got closer to God. Not when God's been obviously present and doing powerful stuff in a congregation, but when life is difficult and I have to trust God more because I need Him more and He might feel more distant.
Faith is so much more than deeds. Being a Christian is so much more than God doing miracles.
We need to remember that.
I have still to make my conclusions on Todd Bentley and there are more issues to tackle in a future blog before I do so. But so far, I can only say I am concerned about what is happening - not because it may not be God necessarily, but because there doesn't appear to be much substance behind it, and because it may be leading people to put their faith in something which is only an outward sign, rather than on something far stronger - the real God at the centre of it.
There is more to discuss, and I am looking forward to doing so.
Wednesday, June 25, 2008
100th post....and some challenging questions
This is my 100th post. Hooray!
Anyway, while I celebrate, I want to (finally) write about the ministry of Todd Bentley. I've watched some of his ministry times of TV and read a lot more about him.
It worries me. That's the truth of it.
Its not the healings and the miracles themselves that worry me though. I have total faith in God's desire and ability to heal people and perform miracles. God is totally capable of that.
But there are serious questions to be asked.
1)What is the substance?
2)What do these guys believe about Jesus and the Bible?
3)Where does their faith come from - faith or miracles?
4)Do the people that go think that Jesus is 'only' at these places and not at their churches?
5)Do the people who lead or people who go think that this is all there is to church and being a Christian, and that miracles are more important?
6)Is this just consumer Christianity?
7)What's going to happen to the congregation when this is all over?
8)What are the new Christians in that congregation going to believe?
9)Where is Jesus in this - and does it reflect what He did in his ministry?
Lots of questions, lots of answers and lots to talk about.
No time to talk about it today, but I'll be back to try and answer these questions soon. It may take a while.
This is an issue that needs to be examined and looking at it will bring up a whole load of other questions about faith in Jesus and modern Christianity.
Should take a few blogs, and some time. Will be interesting...and quite exciting too.
Anyway, while I celebrate, I want to (finally) write about the ministry of Todd Bentley. I've watched some of his ministry times of TV and read a lot more about him.
It worries me. That's the truth of it.
Its not the healings and the miracles themselves that worry me though. I have total faith in God's desire and ability to heal people and perform miracles. God is totally capable of that.
But there are serious questions to be asked.
1)What is the substance?
2)What do these guys believe about Jesus and the Bible?
3)Where does their faith come from - faith or miracles?
4)Do the people that go think that Jesus is 'only' at these places and not at their churches?
5)Do the people who lead or people who go think that this is all there is to church and being a Christian, and that miracles are more important?
6)Is this just consumer Christianity?
7)What's going to happen to the congregation when this is all over?
8)What are the new Christians in that congregation going to believe?
9)Where is Jesus in this - and does it reflect what He did in his ministry?
Lots of questions, lots of answers and lots to talk about.
No time to talk about it today, but I'll be back to try and answer these questions soon. It may take a while.
This is an issue that needs to be examined and looking at it will bring up a whole load of other questions about faith in Jesus and modern Christianity.
Should take a few blogs, and some time. Will be interesting...and quite exciting too.
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